Comments on: The futility of being a Forest (or non top 4 football) fan.. http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/ The mindless ramblings of a Forest fan half imbued with a probably misguided sense of optimism.. Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:38:21 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Radgie http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23166 Radgie Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:07:45 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23166 The draft system is not what makes (keeps) the league competitive. It is the contract system. Depending on the sport, it works slightly differently but the gist is almost the same throughout. In essense, you cannot give any player a contract longer than x years (lets say 3). And you can only renew y contracts each season. Net effect, it is impossible to retain more than 2/3rds (ish) of your current squad for a prolonged period. Stripping this to an extreme, you have a team of 11 players, all on 3 year contracts to begin. Next season, you can only renew 2. Same year after, and so the next. So in 3 years time, you have 5 players without renewed contracts and they leave. Same applies to all teams so there is a constant merry-go-round of players. The draft system is not what makes (keeps) the league competitive. It is the contract system.

Depending on the sport, it works slightly differently but the gist is almost the same throughout. In essense, you cannot give any player a contract longer than x years (lets say 3). And you can only renew y contracts each season. Net effect, it is impossible to retain more than 2/3rds (ish) of your current squad for a prolonged period.

Stripping this to an extreme, you have a team of 11 players, all on 3 year contracts to begin. Next season, you can only renew 2. Same year after, and so the next. So in 3 years time, you have 5 players without renewed contracts and they leave. Same applies to all teams so there is a constant merry-go-round of players.

]]> By: Congo Red http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23122 Congo Red Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:46:24 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23122 Well, NFFC, you've managed to put to writing many of the thoughts which have been flying around my head for a few years now. On JG's point about the NFL, they also have the drafting system, where teams with the worst record from previous seasons get the first picks of the top young talent coming through. This helps even things out and really places a lot of emphasis on scouting the next generation of talent. Quite how this would work over here with each club having their own youth systems and investment being made that way, rather than through a system of colleges, I'm not quite sure. But, yes, something does have to change lest we are left with a total of only 4 teams in this country. Well, NFFC, you’ve managed to put to writing many of the thoughts which have been flying around my head for a few years now.

On JG’s point about the NFL, they also have the drafting system, where teams with the worst record from previous seasons get the first picks of the top young talent coming through. This helps even things out and really places a lot of emphasis on scouting the next generation of talent. Quite how this would work over here with each club having their own youth systems and investment being made that way, rather than through a system of colleges, I’m not quite sure.

But, yes, something does have to change lest we are left with a total of only 4 teams in this country.

]]> By: Chippy http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23109 Chippy Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:07:50 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23109 I think JG is right. Although there are favorites it does seem that everyone has a shot at it and that has to be good for the game. I'm not too certain how money pans out over here but you rarely hear of a team looking for it to buy players. Again another good thing. I think if you could watch the game live online and have a packed stadium only the club would benefit in the long term through sponsorship deals. Just a thought. Best. I think JG is right. Although there are favorites it does seem that everyone has a shot at it and that has to be good for the game. I’m not too certain how money pans out over here but you rarely hear of a team looking for it to buy players. Again another good thing.

I think if you could watch the game live online and have a packed stadium only the club would benefit in the long term through sponsorship deals.

Just a thought.
Best.

]]> By: Nik http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23101 Nik Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:18:13 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23101 I'll be the lone voice of dissent here. I would love to see Forest in the top flight again. That way I could actually see a forest game again. Neither early round cup matches nor lower league games are broadcast here in Canada. I’ll be the lone voice of dissent here. I would love to see Forest in the top flight again. That way I could actually see a forest game again. Neither early round cup matches nor lower league games are broadcast here in Canada.

]]> By: JG http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23097 JG Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:38:13 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23097 Perhaps it's time we looked over the pond to see how they do things in the NFL? At least quite a few teams have a decent chance of winning the Superbowl, rather than just the 4 that we have in the Premier League. They share their TV revenue equally between all teams, unlike the greedy gits in the Prem! Perhaps it’s time we looked over the pond to see how they do things in the NFL? At least quite a few teams have a decent chance of winning the Superbowl, rather than just the 4 that we have in the Premier League. They share their TV revenue equally between all teams, unlike the greedy gits in the Prem!

]]> By: K. Hope http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23096 K. Hope Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:55:27 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23096 I'm in sympathy with your thinking......the root cause of the decline is surely the F.A. I quote "This time, Sky shelled out £1.314bn for 92 games per season (£4.8m per game), while Setanta paid a further £392m for 46 matches (£2.8m per match)." So the F.A. pick up nearly TWO BILLION PER SEASON in TV rights. Now some of this obscene amount of money filters down to lower divisions but most goes to sustaining the Premier League circus and the consequential media hype which surrounds it. Maybe if I lived in Moss Side and supported Man U and unlikely though it was, if I had enough brain cells to think, I'd be more than happy with the status quo, But I don't - I support a team living off it's past with little or no chance of regaining the "top flight" and if it received much more of the FA's money then it could grow by increasing its academy, getting more & better home-grown talent to feed itself and bigger clubs....and maybe dropping admission charges to lead to bigger crowds. Pipe dreams of course....it will continue to be sweet F.A. from the F.A. I’m in sympathy with your thinking……the root cause of the decline is surely the F.A.
I quote “This time, Sky shelled out £1.314bn for 92 games per season (£4.8m per game), while Setanta paid a further £392m for 46 matches (£2.8m per match).” So the F.A. pick up nearly TWO BILLION PER SEASON in TV rights. Now some of this obscene amount of money filters down to lower divisions but most goes to sustaining the Premier League circus and the consequential media hype which surrounds it. Maybe if I lived in Moss Side and supported Man U and unlikely though it was, if I had enough brain cells to think, I’d be more than happy with the status quo, But I don’t – I support a team living off it’s past with little or no chance of regaining the “top flight” and if it received much more of the FA’s money then it could grow by increasing its academy, getting more & better home-grown talent to feed itself and bigger clubs….and maybe dropping admission charges to lead to bigger crowds.
Pipe dreams of course….it will continue to be sweet F.A. from the F.A.

]]> By: Rob Lewin http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23095 Rob Lewin Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:36:13 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23095 I took a friend who is an Arsenal fans to see the Emerates stadium 2 weeks ago as a 50th birthday present. For the top 5 matches West Ham Spurs Man Utd Liverpool and Chelsea the seat price was £94. In this section of the ground they make more in one game than they did in the whole of Highbury. On a positve note the tour guide was Charlie George and he made reference to his 4 match period at Forest by stating Clough and Wenger used the same methords -keeping it simple. I took a friend who is an Arsenal fans to see the Emerates stadium 2 weeks ago as a 50th birthday present. For the top 5 matches West Ham Spurs Man Utd Liverpool and Chelsea the seat price was £94. In this section of the ground they make more in one game than they did in the whole of Highbury.

On a positve note the tour guide was Charlie George and he made reference to his 4 match period at Forest by stating Clough and Wenger used the same methords -keeping it simple.

]]> By: Kieran http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23092 Kieran Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:36:53 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23092 Was thinking exactly the same thing NFFC a couple of weeks ago. Football is now about "entertainment" rather than sport. Its about bringing a brand of 'football' to the consumer and if the consumer doesnt get what they want then the man responsible - the manager - is sacked. I have heard though that it is in the interests of the Premier League for 1 of the top four to keep winning the league and the cups. Of course much of the revenues come from TV rights and much of that is from abroad - in particular Asia. You're average Chinaman is less interested in a 'Blackburn' winning the league - they don't know who they are or any of the players. They'd rather someone win who they've heard of. The problem is there are more people in China than there is in England, thus more money to be made. I agree with your thoughts on the Euro league though. Get em out and let the rest of us get along with the football! Was thinking exactly the same thing NFFC a couple of weeks ago. Football is now about “entertainment” rather than sport. Its about bringing a brand of ‘football’ to the consumer and if the consumer doesnt get what they want then the man responsible – the manager – is sacked.

I have heard though that it is in the interests of the Premier League for 1 of the top four to keep winning the league and the cups. Of course much of the revenues come from TV rights and much of that is from abroad – in particular Asia. You’re average Chinaman is less interested in a ‘Blackburn’ winning the league – they don’t know who they are or any of the players. They’d rather someone win who they’ve heard of. The problem is there are more people in China than there is in England, thus more money to be made.

I agree with your thoughts on the Euro league though. Get em out and let the rest of us get along with the football!

]]> By: Alan http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23058 Alan Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:16:33 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23058 I remember thinking your way around 10 years ago. I wondered if I could 'give up' on Forest [much easier to do in those pre-internet days] and Premier football and go and watch the lower-league local teams just for fun [I live in Sunderland]. Given that those teams are Carlisle and Hartlepool that plan is showing its age. Though here's a thought - kind of related to your original point - the last 2 matches I have been to were the Reds at 'uddersfield and Sunderland at home to Reading. Both cost me 18 of our English pounds to get in. Sorry, now I'm rambling. I remember thinking your way around 10 years ago. I wondered if I could ‘give up’ on Forest [much easier to do in those pre-internet days] and Premier football and go and watch the lower-league local teams just for fun [I live in Sunderland].

Given that those teams are Carlisle and Hartlepool that plan is showing its age.

Though here’s a thought – kind of related to your original point – the last 2 matches I have been to were the Reds at ‘uddersfield and Sunderland at home to Reading. Both cost me 18 of our English pounds to get in.

Sorry, now I’m rambling.

]]> By: nffc http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23057 nffc Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:02:40 +0000 http://nffcblog.com/2007/10/28/the-futility-of-being-a-forest-or-non-top-4-football-fan/#comment-23057 Could be right... it's a horrific thought. I kind of hope that either the Euro League or whatever it is that happens does so, and then the remaining English teams can form a new competition based on more traditional values... at least Forest are likely to feature in the non-European league teams, so selfishly that would suit me. But yes, I can definitely forsee a time when the fan of football will be forced to revert to the non-professional level to get their kicks in the none-too-distant future, which is wholly depressing. Could be right… it’s a horrific thought.

I kind of hope that either the Euro League or whatever it is that happens does so, and then the remaining English teams can form a new competition based on more traditional values… at least Forest are likely to feature in the non-European league teams, so selfishly that would suit me.

But yes, I can definitely forsee a time when the fan of football will be forced to revert to the non-professional level to get their kicks in the none-too-distant future, which is wholly depressing.

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