however, we have had the same problem for years. no matter which manager. no matter which players.

that suggests to me that the problems are actually much much deeper. more than 60% MA …

Sorry but that’s not my point. We all know there are enough Forest supporters around to fill a 30000 stadium, in fact there are more than enough to fill a 40000 stadium. Why are they not coming to games? The point is under Mark Arthur’s tenure this club has not exactly been creative when trying to get people into the ground with the exception of the odd kids for a quid game.

Other clubs run all sorts of schemes to try and fill their ground. Some allow kids to have free season tickets. Some clubs when seeing possible reductions in season tickets freeze or (heaven forbid) lower prices to encourage fans to give their money up front. After all, it is lump sum payment for tickets that the club wants. They do not want supporters paying £24 on an add hoc basis. The reason for this is simple. If the club receives your money up front, it is money they can invest and possibly earn themselves interest. If it stays in your pocket and only comes out on match days, they lose this income opportunity.

Mark Arthur’s PR disasters have undoubtedly alienated certain sections of our support and we all know a number of people who have stopped going as a result. Somehow the club needs to reach out to the supporters, make them feel valued and try and get them back to matches. A full City Ground used to be an intimidating place. How many games have you been to at home this season where there has been real atmosphere? Not many.

If (and it is fast becoming a real possibility) we fail to get promotion this year, I have real concerns over the quality of the team we will have here next season. Can you really see Commons, Tyson, Prutton etc wanting to play another year in League One? Can you really see us getting 12000+ season ticket sales? Can you really see us averaging gates of 20000?

What I can see is Mark Arthur talking about adapting to a third season in League One. What I can see is a further hike in season ticket prices to cover any shortfall in sales. What I can see are gates of 15000. What I can see is a team built around the ‘promising talents coming through the academy’ with little money given to Calderwood to spend on new players.

The reason I can predict all this is because we’ve heard it all before, too many times from Mark Arthur and Nigel Doughty.

Well, give the ground back to the council, which owns it, and share.

Meadow Lane would be rocking with 19,000 inside!

Then there is the weakening of the side by letting the likes of Southall go without replacement and the manager’s failure to recognise that the midfield needs more creativity. These issues lie at the manager’s door.

It is a fair comment that the dreadful Arthur is ultimately Doughty’s choice, therefore his fault.

I can not say a single word against what you have just written Barrow because it rings home with me. Should vioces bellow out at the City Ground in anger towards Doughty at some point, I for one would most certainly be vocal in my opinions.

Sunderland, Leicester, Derby, Coventry, Sheff Wed to name a few have made things happen thanks to fan pressure, why can’t we?

We are a laughing stock at the moment.

I agree about CC’s inexperience, but have faith in him. He will come good if given the time to do it. I think he needs to be a little more ruthless and not worry so much about upsetting the “group.” They’ll be none too worried when he’s sacked for their failings.

Certainly in the comments I made, I made no call for Doughty to sell up and go. His money did save the club from administration which now carries severe penalties, although at the time those penalties were not in place. At the end of the day, it is HIS club (not ours) and he can do what he sees fit.

However, the point of NFFC’s original article was who is to blame for our problems. As it is Doughty’s club, and the Manager and the Chief Executive are his appointments, their shortcomings become his failings.

Forest supporters do not like or trust Mark Arthur and have not done so for many seasons now. If Nigel Doughty was ‘just another season ticket holder’ (as he liked to be thought of when he first became Chairman) then surely he would know the damage Arthur’s continued tenure is having. You have to ask yourself the question as to why he is still in the job? The answer is he has Nigel Doughty’s full backing. Therefore Nigel Doughty is to blame.

Forest supporters pine for a return to good footballing values. Yes I know we were spoilt under Cloughie (the only time I will mention him in this debate) but even since he left we have seen the team play wonderful football under Frank Clark (particularly the Collymore, Roy & Bohinen era). We then returned to playing with style under Paul Hart (who Doughty only appointed because he was cheap and who he never trusted). We know good football and it frustrates us all to see our team outplayed week after week.

I know from a supporters club forum a couple of years ago Nigel Doughty was asked outright why he continues to persevere with ‘long ball managers’. He claimed the game has changed and that the sort of football we used to play is no longer successful. (Clearly, he is right having seens Arsenal’s results in the last few weeks!!) Seriously, this is a blinkered (and totally incorrect!) view on football but goes a long way to explain his managerial appointments. And let’s not forget all of the appointments since he came to the club have been failures (with the exception of one season under Harty – the man he felt obliged to appoint rather than wanted). Therefore Nigel Doughty is to blame.

I know we have become a bit self critical as a group of supporters. The booing against Northampton at half time was unfortunate (almost as unfortunate as picking Scott Dobie to start the match – only joking Scott!!) However, you need to ask yourself why we go through large percentages of (home) games with a lack of atmosphere. There are two reasons I can see for this.

The first I have already covered. We play rubbish football most of the time. The opposition consistently look more comfortable on the ball than we do. This is down to the players, but ultimately the manager. The manager is Doughty’s appointment and it is therefore his fault.

The second are the perceived high ticket prices. We play most of our games to crowds of around 19,000 with increased numbers when there is either a large away following or the club runs a special offer on the game. Therefore the ground is only two thirds full. Now I know we still have far away the biggest gates in the division but how many other teams in our league have a 30,000 seater stadium. If there were league tables on the percentage of available seats sold per game we would be nowhere near the top.

It seems a false economy to me to to have a third of the ground empty every game. It also suggests that either the product is rubbish (which it is most of the time) or that the pricing is wrong (which it is all of the time). If in any other form of entertainment you only sold two thirds of the seats it would be a disaster and in all likelyhood the show or the concert etc. would have a short shelf life. Why is our ground not full ?( even if it’s free tickets for local schools etc because they’ll still buy the programmes, the shirts, the burgers and you never know they may want to come back!) You could blame Mark Arthur. You could blame Colin Calderwood. You could blame the players. You could even blame the Nottingham Forest supporters. However, ultimately you must blame Nigel Doughty.

Where do we go as supporters from here. Ultimately, we need to influence Nigel Doughty on his decisions. We need to make our voices heard (in the right way) about Mark Arthur. We need to make our voices heard (in the right way) about the way our team plays. That does not mean booing any player during a game because I support ANYONE who wears our shirt. If our manager cannot blend a team together that plays good football then we need to make our feelings known (in the right way) about the manager.

Unfortunately, part of the problem in the past has been Mr Doughty’s apparent disregard in the past to supporters feelings. He has displayed a seemingly arrogant ‘I know better than you’ attitude. Even if we do raise all of the issues, I have no faith in the man that he would actually listen. And that ladies and gentlemen is what I blame Nigel Doughty for most of all!!

Phew, finished!

Interesting stuff about Jarvis. However ultimately Doughty’s fault!!