There are accusations flying on the Vital Forest forum that both Ian Breckin and Smoulderwood were involved with at least verbal altercations with supporters during or just after the game against Blackpool last night. Hearing some of the fans around me, I can understand the compulsion – with plenty of ill-informed vitriol flying pitchward from all directions – I can certainly understand the rage, but some people really do need to have a think before they open their mouths.
But even considering the provocation from supporters, if it’s true that fans were told to ‘fuck off’ or were gestured at with the ‘wanker sign’ – even if you or I would think it is warranted – it does seem rather symptomatic of the kind of ‘team spirit’ we exhibited under our last full time manager – and does rather go against the grain of ‘the solidity of the group’ that Smoulderwood often refers to during interviews.
There’s no excuse for it really – I wouldn’t join the clamour of reactionists (including, if you click the link above, the apparent recipient of some of this abuse – who hardly aquits himself when he’s had time to sit and type his thoughts) who want to see Breckin hounded out of his captaincy, or even his contract – to be honest, I’ve felt like calling some of our so-called supporters wankers on more than one occasion – but after putting in a disappointing performance – the players and manager should really be ready to deal with the inevitable abuse that will follow.
Breckin is an interesting character really – because nobody really seems to have taken to him. He’s mostly solid if unspectacular at the back – opting for long clearances or into touch more often than not. Yesterday, and against Northampton, I thought he’d been more ready to look up and play a pass across the back or up the line – but I fear that once again the prejudice of some fans kicks in, so now he’s “shit” and “useless”. Please, some people need a healthy dose of realism.
As for stripping him of his captaincy, who would you give the armband to? Working my way from the back, Curtis is hardly vocal, Wes and Jules are too inexperienced, Prutton isn’t even a Forest player (hopefully he will be), but stands out as a potential future captain. Gary Holt – ha, I bet that would go down well with the boo-boys, Perchy is too young, Tyson, Agogo, Grant Holt? No, not really. Sammy Clingan? Maybe, but he can’t even get on the pitch, Jack Lester? He has a bit of passion, that’s for sure – but his discipline isn’t great. Paul Smith? I don’t think he’s vocal enough just for a goalkeeper yet, let alone a captain.
Whilst Breckin is most certainly not the greatest captain we’ve ever had – is there any alternative?
Filed under: News
Well some fans have to realise that they reap what they sow and if they did get a few words and gestures from CC and Brecks then they probably deserved it. Like I said in another topic some of our fans need to grow up a little bit and stop spitting the dummy out when things don’t go 100% the way we’d all like it to. I mean in all the hysteria about the Blackpool result (disapointing as it was) it’s easy to forget that we didn’t actually lose the game and gained a point.
Remember the 1993 – 94 Season in Div 1? We didn’t really start playing consistently well until March and still picked up enough points to finish 2nd and I don’t remember any great dissention among the supporters then. Maybe I was young and nieve back then?
It’s times like this I’m quite glad I live about 3500 miles away from the City Ground as it doesn’t sound like the kind of place that is a barrel of laughs right now……and I’m not talking about the standard of football on offer either. It’s a strange place when a section of out own fans try and undermine the team in this way and then go on forums and say stuff like.. “they look short of confidence…blah blah blah “…well like I say, you reap what you sow.
well i suggest you stop pontificating and get to a match then you will be able to speak with authority. The entertainment, the type of tactics and the attitude shown week after week are not what we want to see. However you would not know that!!!
Be fair beestonred – a 3,500 mile trip is quite an obstacle.
Unless you were directing it at me, in which case, I did go – and I agree.. although is it tactics or is it the players? Surely Smoulderwood wouldn’t tell them to sit so deep and invite Blackpool on to them… would he?
Thanks Richard for the assist you’ve given me, I’m too far away myself and just thought I shouldn’t comment since the people who really know what is happening go to the CG and abuse their own team.
Well people, either you like it or not, players and managers are human and are not supposed to get any abuse just because they may be better paid than yourselves. Who is going to lose if Forest isn’t promoted? Do you see these players going any place where they’d be better off financially? Do you actually think they don’t want to get promoted? What would you say now if we hadn’t allowed those two last-gasp goals? We’d be comfortably 2nd 3 pts behind Scunny and you’d roar with enthusiasm that we could beat them at home and get on top.
Yes, Forest are not playing well lately, we all know that, even Richard and I from so far away. But have any of you ever experienced the pressure of running for champion? I am sure that with exactly the same team in the Championship we’d do much better, just because we’d not be supposed to walk over any team in the league. I am still confident that we will get promoted, I don’t care if it’s through the playoffs or anything. Any of you remember the 1976-’77 Forest, who won promotion on the last day finishing third because of another club’s bad result? The manager back then was a certain Mr Brian Clough (RIP although I doubt it!), and we all know what happened next…
As far as Brecks is concerned, some people seem to forget that without this guy’s goals last season (when our strikers couldn’t hit a cow in a telephone booth) we could even be playing in League 2 (and have more reasons to moan about!). He was our Player of the Year for heavens sake. NFFC is right, who would you give the armband to? Let Prutton sign a permanent deal, Commons lose some weight and be totally fit again, or Lester get rid of his stupid habit of picking up cards, then we can talk… I think that given the mentality of most players we’d stick with Chambers…
Anyway I think that first, even if Brecks responded to the abuse (which is not the right thing to do but I’d understand it) it’s not enough to make us forget what he’s done for the club in a season as difficult as the last one. Then, I think we have more serious things to take care of now than to question our captaincy!!!
Sorry for talking too much for someone so far away…
As someone who actually saw Breckin shout ‘fuck off’ at the Trent End as he walked straight down the tunnel at the end of the game (note no running over to the supporters clapping a la Prutton) I must admit to being more than a little surprised.
By the time he left the pitch there was no booing, no gesturing at the players etc, just a lot of miserable people trying to get out of the City Ground as quickly as possible after watching what was quite possibly the most inept performance at home this season. And yes, I do include the Scunthorpe and Orient games in thinking this.
Forest are too negative, too boring and totally unable to keep the football for any period of time. This has been the case all season, even when we were scraping wins and riding our luck before Christmas.
As a supporter who does not boo players I don’t like to hear fans get on the back of individuals during a game. However when we are playing football with no style, no skill and no creativity, how is a supporter meant to put across there displeasure to players, the manager or indeed the Chairman (for it is he who continues to appoint long ball, negative managers.)
Until this football club returns to playing football in the right way (as Blackpool did so well last night) then there will be an undercurrent on displeasure on Trentside. We will tolerate it if results are okay but as soon as results go bad then patience will run out very quickly. Megson, Bassett & Kinnear can all confirm this. Compare their demise to Harty’s where the club could not score for weeks on end but even when he was eventually sacked, he still had the support of most of the supporters.
With the attacking options available, we should be doing so much more than we showed last night. And the blame for that has to lie with the Manager.
Replacing the captain really isn’t going to change things, but you’re maybe a bit harsh in dismissing Wes. He’s 23 and been at Forest from a trainee since 2002, he’s had around 150 first team appearances and of course, he’s a local lad. I don’t think his experience is an issue, whether he’d command the respect of other players and have enough presence on the pitch is another matter I suppose.
I guess you’re right. I don’t have any authority to comment. I will shut up in future.
Sorry folks.
Don’t be daft Richard – I welcome comments from anybody.
Just a few things to point out…
If I were Calderwood, particualrly taking into account that the comments about our players being unable to keep or pass the ball succesfully for any period of time, I’d be inclined to think defensively as well. If we have players who are incapable of finding each other with the ball, how exactly are we supposed to play a passing game???
Paul Hart resigned, he was not sacked. Also, he did not have the support of the fans, he was basically hounded out of the club after much criticism about his inability to change formation (Funny that much criticism is now aimed at Calderwood for not sticking with a formation isn’t it?)
I’ve had reservations about Breckin’s role as captain for some time. Whilst I agree with an earlier comment that his goals were crutial last year, you have to wonder where he was when the players were rebelling against Megson. As captain he should be imploring his team to play for him, for the manager and for the club, however I would not be suprised if it was behind it all.
Secondly, he embodies the kind of arrogant and nochelant attitude we seem to have had on the pitch this season. This may be just me, but I would have far perferred Danny Cullip as captain over Breckin. As for future captains, whilst big Wes would be a favourite, and remember he was given the armband against Derby a couple of seasons back, he doesnt strike me as a natural leader.
Its all a mute point anyway, cause to change captaincy mid-season would just be plain stupid.
Still, reports of players and managers swearing at their own supporters smacks of the kind of thing a club on the brink of relegation would experience, not one pushing for promotion.
sorry Richard
it was a ‘ morning after the night before’ comment as i am getting increasingly angry at the innabilty of this club to appoint a manager who will turn out a side that we can appreciate, even if we are not promotion candidates. Not personal mate, keep writing.
Shame prutts isnt a forest player, he and jack were class acts on tuesday. He would be my pick for captain now we dont have cullip. When cullip came back into the side it was him who did all the encouraging, all the shouting, and all the organising. No good relying on smith, great shotstopper but not commanding enough. So, no cullip and a captain who apparently slags off the fans on the way down the tunnel. Fine, show him your authority colin: drop him, play chambers and teach him a lesson. Mind you, the way he’s been performing he probably wouldnt mind. Personally, i think cc will play sammy and commons on saturday and we will win comfortably. Still, been saying that since christmas!
Come now Richard, don’t throw all your toys out!